badboy
I think that both words could have been used and the reader would understand what is meant. If I'd written that sentence myself, I'd have used 'are' rather than 'were', too.
lifelong humanist
JoinedPosts by lifelong humanist
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23
IS THIS WATCHTOWER PARAGRAPH GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT?
by badboy inwt march 1 2009 page 3. the ancient babylonians,for example, believed that human affairs are influenced by the stars and their movements.. should `are' be `were'?.
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Walk Away Quietly, Go Out with a Bang, Protest, Disappear- What's Best?
by OnTheWayOut inthere are many different things that each of us deal with, but the biggest reasons most come here is for support in their own lives and in dealing with the jw's in their lives.
so many are lurking or new here, so maybe they need to hear why some of you chose the path you chose.. for each of us, the decisions on how to leave the wt are our own.
i fast-faded and don't look over my shoulder worrying about the elders trying to trap me because my wife doesn't spy for them.
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lifelong humanist
When I finally knew in my own mind that there was no god, creator, no one to inspire any religious texts, no need to worship, love or fear any deity, in good conscience, I just had to write a DA letter and walk away. That was 6 years ago. Prior to handing in the letter I discussed the matter with my wife. She thought that that was a more honourable way to exit than just to fade. I liked the feeling of closure and the prospect of opening up a new chapter in my life. For me, family that were still (and still are) in, amounted to my wife, father in law and my wife's brother and his wife. Fortunately our 4 sons were smarter than their old dad, and got out a few years before me! Shortly after submitting the letter, I had a visit from a well intentioned elder (secretary) in the congregation I attended that I respected (and still do). It transpired that he also was losing belief in god and JWs at the same time. This elder kindly pointed out the undoubtable merits of the fade method, but I explained to him that I couldn't go through with that and didn't want to 'live a lie'.
As I've posted before, the fact that my wife chose to stay in still baffles me, but I'm currently awaiting delivery of Steve Hassan's 2 books recommended by leavingwt, and maybe some of the points and advice therein will do the trick - I really do hope so. They'll be my holiday reading!
I know several JWs that are 'going through the motions' and no longer believe in the JW version of Christianity, but are just plain scared of making their views official as they feel they couldn't handle the repercussions due to the shunning process, which if anything, seems more entrenched and nasty that I can previously recall. In fact the pressure to 'stay' for family and friends must surely be the main indicator that the JW religion is a wicked cult.
I'm interested in observing how some ex-JW 'heavies' are getting on as they expose this and other shameful practices that go on within the religion. Reports of their progress are encouraging!
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What's the best way to reason with and help your wife to give up her JW religion?
by lifelong humanist ini dad myself 6 years ago, and was quite surprised that my wife (of 38 years) did not follow suit.
perhaps this is because her father and brother are still active jws, and she doesn't want them to shun her the way that they have done to me.. so, my wife is still a jw, albeit losing interest in her religion.
as far as i know, she doesn't even go door to door anymore.
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lifelong humanist
leavingwt
Thanks for your recommendation for Steven Hassan's second book - I've just ordered both of his titles from Amazon.UK. 'Releasing the Bonds' is rather expensive, so I've gone for a second hand copy, although if it works, the money will be well worth it!
Like you, I have my Beatles CDs in the car and often listen to them - now I understand why you have the Paul McCartney photo under your posting name!
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Straight from the C.O.
by swa inhello all, i have been lurking, looking, reading, and digesting for around 2 years and it seems the time is right to post.
i recently had one of those moments at the kindom hall where i found myself looking around thinking "am i the only one who gets it, why doesn't anyone else have this puzzled look on their face?".
said during is second talk to the congregation "all of our food, our magazines, and all our wonderful books, and videos come from/through these 9 men".
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lifelong humanist
swa
A warm welcome to the boards - thanks for your first post. I'm new to the boards as well, having posted just a few times.
Maybe this speaker simply 'strayed' from his outline and said, 'off- the-cuff' what he wasn't supposed to reveal (at the present time) to the plebs?
Good for you, though, to be 'paying attention' not just listening to the words, but trying to get behind the import of his words!
If this is a typical situation, maybe the average JWs are in for a difficult few years. If this latest form of 'new light' fails to register and only slightly dazzles most of the flock into seeing what the latest changes mean to their religious structure, their attemp has met with success. Perhaps, extremely strict measures are about to be introduced to stifle even more any desire to stop and think, take stock and ask pertinent questions of the rulership, etc.?
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How Many Personally Heard F. W. Franz Speak?
by snowbird ini believe i did in 1974, but i was just coming into the org and didn't realize the significance of the part he played.. it was a sunday at a stadium on the campus of the university of alabama in tuscaloosa.
all the "friends" were almost beside themselves with excitement, so looking back, it must have been f. w. franz!.
i'd worked until 6 pm that saturday night, had a one year old teething child, and had to arise at 3 am to get ready for the bus trip.. when we arrived, the weather had turned colder, the stadium was quite warm, and i fell asleep a few minutes into the talk.
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lifelong humanist
I did when I was about 18 or 19 years old, so that would be around 1971.
The venue was a Glasgow, Scotland, former cinema.
At that time his eyesight was failing fast and he spoke entirely without notes. This is the reason why he went seriously overtime - by about 1 hr 20 mins. I recall that what he said was delivered in a rather boring monotone, which I was totally unprepared for, as I expected a rather dynamic, exciting delivery that would immediately grasp my attention and hold me somewhat in awe. I distinctly remember thinking that I was extremely bored, disappointed and somewhat annoyed that the 'special talk' was anything but!
But to be fair, I recalled that he was by then a rather sad, old man that had been asked to speak at a venue he probably would rather not have been invited to speak at! The 'hype' was that this was a vital talk, not- to- be- missed - so expectations were sky high! I expect that with his failing health issues, he had to learn the words that he'd utter many, many times - probaly a time, times and half a time!
It was an extremely lacklustre affair!
I don't blame the speaker - I blame those behind the build-up to the event - they should simply have said that it would be a 'boring dirge by an old man that had lost much of his powers of oratory! But, I believe public speaking was never his forte...
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Acquired morality
by lifelong humanist inas a humanist, i meet like-minded people, and accept that they are highly pricipled, moral people, capable of reasoning why they take the stance that they do.
i likewise meet religious people that also fit this description.. most humanists weren't always that way - probably no more than 25% were members of a religion before abandoning it.
those that had a previous religious belief - like myself for 50 years as a born-in, third generation jw, feel that they are now more 'moral' people, and set even higher standards of being honest, fair, reasonable, decent, non-dogmatic, etc.
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lifelong humanist
As a humanist, I meet like-minded people, and accept that they are highly pricipled, moral people, capable of reasoning why they take the stance that they do. I likewise meet religious people that also fit this description.
Most humanists weren't always that way - probably no more than 25% were members of a religion before abandoning it. Those that had a previous religious belief - like myself for 50 years as a born-in, third generation JW, feel that they are now more 'moral' people, and set even higher standards of being honest, fair, reasonable, decent, non-dogmatic, etc. This observation might well surprise people on these boards who are religious.
Religious people usually claim that their morals come from their beliefs taught by their respective religion's teachings - a higher source.
So, why do the non-religious, and atheists like myself, put such a lot of effort into taking a reasoned moral stand on life's complex issues? Does this not show that being a moral person is a learned, natural response acquired by everyday experience of how best to deal with situations in a rapidly changing world?
I believe that 'doing the 'right thing' makes for good relationships with our fellow humans, and promotes friendships that are not conditional on a set of religious beliefs.
What do think?
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What's the best way to reason with and help your wife to give up her JW religion?
by lifelong humanist ini dad myself 6 years ago, and was quite surprised that my wife (of 38 years) did not follow suit.
perhaps this is because her father and brother are still active jws, and she doesn't want them to shun her the way that they have done to me.. so, my wife is still a jw, albeit losing interest in her religion.
as far as i know, she doesn't even go door to door anymore.
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lifelong humanist
I DAd myself 6 years ago, and was quite surprised that my wife (of 38 years) did not follow suit. Perhaps this is because her father and brother are still active JWs, and she doesn't want them to shun HER the way that they have done to me.
So, my wife is still a JW, albeit losing interest in her religion. As far as I know, she doesn't even go door to door anymore. Missing meetings is not a big deal.
In my efforts to 'free' her, I can't easily decide the best course to take, so what do you discerning posters think - would discussing with her the ever changing views of previously held core beliefs - i.e., 1914, the 'generation', 1975, vascetomies, blood fractions, the escalating number that claim to be of the 'annointed', etc. be a good approach to take?
Or, do you think that the 'new light' versus 'old light' scenario might work better?
Alternatively, do you think it would be better to try to help via my humanist's 'common sense approach' to the situation that all humans find themselves in, regardless of holding any religious belief, no matter how extreme that might be?
What other ideas do you have that I might utilise to try and help? Any considered thoughs would be apprreciated.
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Not been on for AGES but need to rant
by billie jean ini've not used any boards for a long time because i felt i'd got what i needed from them and felt i needed to 'move on' for want of a better word.
i've just come back from staying at my j.w parents house for a few days (which was long enough) we don't usually bring the subject of 'it' up but the other night i got it all, the bile was out, they were on defensive mode, to the point of shouting, insulting me, telling me that they'll 'cut me off' if they find out i'm apostate, then laughing at me and causing me to actualy feel worthless it was unreal.
i told them i'm an atheist and tried to tell them what the 'truth' does and what it really is but i got absolutely nowhere.
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lifelong humanist
billie jean
While I can comprehend and sympathise with the situation that you write about, you should surely be pleased that you were at least invited to stay? - most JW parents would would have just 'cut you off' - so that's something positive, and , hopefully, somewhere to start sorting things out in your relationship with them.
I'd say to just try and keep calm, stay reolute, and who knows when your parents might realize that it is not you, but them that have the problem, due to their beliefs and lack of accommodating yours?
In my 35 adult years as a JW, I reckon that many JWs have serious doubts about the very existence of god, far less their own JW organization's version of god!
Good luck with your awkward situation, though.
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Do You Care What Happens To Indiviual JWs At This Point In Time?
by minimus inother than possibly family members, do you care what happens to those you called "brothers and sisters"?.
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lifelong humanist
minimus
In general, I only care for people that I know who might approach me for any sort of help. Then, I'd offer whatever unconditional help or assistance I reasonably could. Whether they are JW's or not makes absolutely no difference to me!
However, I can't spend time worrying over problems individual people experience that I don't know they are having. Of course I'm concerned when I hear of natural disasters, people starving, etc. My heart goes out to these people, and I can contribute some money if a fund is set up to provide assistance. This, I think is the most balanced approach to take and maintains my sanity.
The sad thing for me is that the JWs that I knew well over many years wouldn't approach me as I DAd myself about 6 years ago. In the past, many did approach and I believe the help I offered was a benefcial to them. I know of several who, even now, would value my judgement and might ask for help, but, I reckon they'd be too afraid of being found out and reported to the elders for their actiions. I'd like to believe that one day these people would feel free enough to counter the pressure to conform to their man-made rules, and just be themselves!
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How many here actually still believe that there is a God??
by annalice inafter being gone from the jw's for many years now , and having done extensive research on the history of god and the belief in him , i can't seem to find any logical way to have a belief in an invisble being up there ruling over us.
how many here still believe?
how many don't?.
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lifelong humanist
annalice, I've loked at this site for over 3 years and have never posted before, but thought I'd respond...
I'm 57 years old, attended meetings even before I was born, was raised as a JW and made myself available for many years as an 'elder', 'pioneer' etc. I disassociated myself about 6 years ago. My primary reason was not the conflict that exists within the JWs, rather, that I just couldn't reconcile belief in any 'god' any longer. My limited knowledge of the beautiful planet we share with all other life forms, and the chaos that exists above, below and on it convinces me that this is so. Evidence of constantly evolving creatures, plants, viruses, geological plate movements, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. have assisted me to arrive at this conclusion. I'd often admired the stance taken by humanists, and this seems best to sum up the type of person I now am.
What other people believe is entirely their business, and I accept their right to chose whatever explanation that they want.
The problems that my radical change in belief have caused me with my JW wife and her family, will be of no surprise to anyone on this website. While I find this annoying and frustrating at times, in no way do I regret being open and frank in stating my belief.
I sincerely hope that my wife will come to a similar conclusion soon, as I know that she has serious doubts about the ever changing beliefs within her religion.